Borrowed Ten Grand, Turned Down Ten Billion | Stephen Ross

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:00):
I'm speechless. You're speechless. You're never speechless. Yeah. So let me ask you a question. You ever think about your number, your whatever, somebody will call it the magic number. Someone gives you a call and says, I'm going to give you this amount of money to sell everything, sell everything you have, and walk away. And I think, I don't know if you have a number,

David Segal (00:00:19):
I got a number. It was a lot less than what Steve Ross got offered.

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:21):
Well, here's a guy who gets a phone call less than a year ago. Someone calls and says, I'm going to give you just over 10 billion in cash to buy the Dolphins to buy F1 Miami and to buy the Hard Rock Stadium. 10 billion. 10 billion with a B. And what does this guy say? He says, no, not for me. We ask him why. He says, I didn't even consider it. Why would I do that? This is a guy who has this insatiable hunger to grow and build. It was an amazing interview.

David Segal (00:00:53):
Steve Ross is 84 years old and he is just getting started.

Harley Finkelstein (00:00:55):
It's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, just getting started is exactly the right way to put it. We tried to talk about, and this is the guy that built the Time Warner Center. He built Hudson Yard from idea to Hudson Yards, over 10 billion of real estate

David Segal (00:01:08):
Developed by Steve

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:09):
Ross. And he didn't even want to talk about those old projects. He just wanted to talk about what he's working on right now, the next project. And he talks about how he thinks about business, how he thinks about doing good. It was an incredible interview. He

David Segal (00:01:20):
Talks about life. I mean, he's got just such incredible values and he talks about where those came from and his just ability to focus in the moment and how he thinks about these complex real estate projects

Harley Finkelstein (00:01:33):
And long-term. Everyone talks about being long-term thinkers. He is a long-term thinker. And I also love the idea, I love the fact that he has this, I referred to it at the interview as like this. He's so excited about what he's doing. I think part of being happy is getting really excited by the things that you're working on. And he's so excited by the things he's working on, so much so that he doesn't even really care about 10 billion.

David Segal (00:01:56):
I mean, most 84 year olds are playing shuffleboard. That's right. Steve Ross is about to build a

Harley Finkelstein (00:02:01):
City. It was an incredible interview. You're going to love this one. We go deep. Ladies and gentlemen, Steve Ross. Lemme start with this. We're trying to figure out how a kid from Detroit born in 1940, your mother's family were immigrants from Russia. Your dad was from Poland. How does a guy from kid from Detroit and building a Time Warner Center, Hudson Yards city place, owning the Miami Dolphins, bringing the F1 to Miami. So we want to start all the way back at your childhood. What was it like growing up in the Ross House?

Steve Ross (00:02:57):
I mean, it was very typical American family. I mean,

Harley Finkelstein (00:03:01):
You have sbb US dinners. Pardon? Sbb US dinners.

Steve Ross (00:03:03):
We had dinners almost every night at Saturday at six o'clock. My father came home for dinner. Something I never did. But yeah, it started there. But we lived in a two family house. My mother and her sister, they lived up above us. And so the family was always very close. And my grandfather, and she had, my grandparents had three daughters and one lived above us and the other one a half a block away. So it was so very small family.

David Segal (00:03:46):
And you guys were very entrepreneurial. I mean, your uncle was in business, your dad was in business. Did you guys talk a lot of business at the table?

Steve Ross (00:03:52):
Not at all.

David Segal (00:03:53):
Interesting.

Steve Ross (00:03:53):
Really? Politics. Yeah, politics. And my father always was lecturing me, so about whatever it was, he was an inventor. And I think he spent a lot of, he'd go back to the office at night and inventing things. He was very bright and creative. He wasn't a great businessman as I turned out. I mean, I didn't know at that time, but he was very bright. He had only a third grade education. So he is mostly self-taught and the things that he did wasn't a real social guy. Spent a lot of time working. I guess he had a good work ethic, but I guess that's where I got it from. But my mother's side was in business and my grandfather was very successful.

Harley Finkelstein (00:04:52):
What did he do?

Steve Ross (00:04:53):
He just probably had as much impact in my life and as anybody was my grandfather, because half the year they lived with my aunt above us. And then they lived in Florida the other half.

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:08):
And he was a Russian immigrant, is that right? He was a Russian immigrant. And what'd you learn from him?

Steve Ross (00:05:13):
Exactly? Probably I learned more from him than anybody. I mean, he was just a very honest, straightforward guy. Wasn't really looking for fame and fortune just always did the right thing. And he would always emphasize the most important thing you have is your word. And the way his story of how he grew his business had a real impact in my life. I mean, I was very, very close with him.

Harley Finkelstein (00:05:45):
What did he do? What was his business?

Steve Ross (00:05:48):
He came here as an immigrant when he was 17. And he married somebody who was an orphan who had enough money to send him to America. And he said he would send for her as soon as he had enough money within a year he sent for her. Good for him. And then he invited, I guess he had a relatively large family, I think four or five brothers and sisters. And he invited them all to come. One came to come here. And then he had family in New Jersey and he went there. He landed, I guess at the island. What's it called? Ellis Island. Yeah, Ellis Island. He said he spent one night in New York City

(00:06:41):
And down where all these homes where everybody lived. He said he couldn't stand that. He went out to visit his relatives. They offered to keep him, and he didn't know the language. I mean, think of this 17 years old, and he was a peddler. I mean, it's hard to pedal something if you don't even know the language. But I guess he learned the language. He ended up several years later in a place called, he was it in Ohio? Small town in Ohio. And he set up a generalist store there, which led to that. And he became the wealthiest guy in town. And then he would make these mortgages to people or lend them money. And he lost all his money during the depression

(00:07:33):
And then went to Detroit from there. I guess he being the bigger city. And so just started a new business. I mean, he didn't have a business. So I mean, the great story tells me was he went to the bank in Detroit, the National Bank of Detroit, and he asked him to borrow money to buy a business that he had found that he thought he'd be successful with. And the banker said, that's great. We hear you. Let me see your financial statement. He said, if I show you my financial statement, you'll never lend me the money. So he said, well, why? He said, just check me out. I know how to make money. I'm good for my word. And they did that. He came back and he said, and they said to him, if we lend you money for a different business that we've taken over, would you be interested? He said, if I think I can make money. So he analyzed that business. He said it took a couple months, he came back. He said it was reclaiming crank case oil. I mean, I don't

Harley Finkelstein (00:08:49):
Know. He knows nothing about this business.

Steve Ross (00:08:50):
He knows nothing about this. He finds an engineer to tell him. I mean, even the name of the business sounds kind of reclaiming crank case oil. What

David Segal (00:09:00):
Crank case OL is,

Steve Ross (00:09:01):
Do you? I don't even know what it is even to that day, but it almost doesn't matter. It didn't matter. So he said, came back and he said, yes, I'd be interested in that. And they gave him the business and I guess set him up in the business because what were they going to do with it? And he then created the largest independent oil refinery in the Midwest.

David Segal (00:09:23):
Wow. And this is during the boom of cars and

Steve Ross (00:09:26):
Well, I guess, I mean, it was after the depression. So it was between there and World War I.

(00:09:33):
And he had built I as a kid, so this is say 19 44, 45, 46, he'd take me out to the refinery. And it was really interesting. I mean, I loved the smell of it and I couldn't wait to go out there with him, his walk around. But then that's how my uncle, when he graduated school from Ohio State, he came in, worked for my grandfather, and then grew the business handling the sales and what have you, got a pipeline from the refinery to Ford Motor, dealt with Henry Ford, which ly then to be antisemitic. But he got, and that really made him the pipeline from the refinery. Plus he was doing sewing, heating oil to all these different companies. It was like a business that a lot of Jewish guys had small heating oil companies, but they got all the oil from him. And then my came in and he did two things.

(00:10:51):
While he was there though, he consolidated and started buying all these small heating oil companies. I mean heating oil. And then he wanted to get into gasoline, and he went to, my grandfather really couldn't afford or wasn't sophisticated as my uncle would say, to then take the oil refinery and take it up the cracking plant to make it gasoline. So my uncle went out and found someone to back him. In doing that portion, they used my grandfather's refinery, which they expanded for the oil for the gasoline company in about 1950. My uncle bought my grandfather out

Harley Finkelstein (00:11:44):
And all this because your grandfather went to the bank and said, I need a loan. And they said, we're not going to give you a loan directly, but if you take over this company, maybe we'll do it. Pivoted.

Steve Ross (00:11:54):
Yeah. And I guess then the character of him showed reputation also.

David Segal (00:12:00):
I'm very curious about your uncle. I mean, doing business as a Jew with Henry Ford in those days. I mean, that's remarkable. He was a notorious antisemite. How did he approach

Steve Ross (00:12:12):
That? I have no idea. I'm a young kid. He never talked about it with you. He never talked about that relationship with him. One of his best friends became Henry Ford ii, and they were very close personal friends after that. Interesting. But I accepted it the way it was. But the character, my grandfather was always that he would give to charity and not looking for the recognition. It was the right thing to do.

Harley Finkelstein (00:12:53):
And that obviously instilled a sense of, I mean, a lot of people, when we spoke to you about you, a lot of people talk about Kuma alum as being something that they want to embrace, make the world better. But your reputation, Steve, is that people see you and actually do it. That you actually have always been given. You always, I mean, we'll get to the giving pledge later on, but did that come from your grandfather, that sense of community, that sense of if you do well, you give back?

Steve Ross (00:13:20):
Yeah, I guess it came from my grandfather to start with. And I guess my uncle, I guess it came from him as well. I mean, I'd listened to him. My grandmother would always talk about my grandfather. Yeah.

David Segal (00:13:35):
You started by telling us, you guys never talked business at the dinner table. And yet here you have your grandfather rags to riches story. Your uncle, a huge player in business. How could that be? I mean, business was their whole lives. Did your dad not see it the same

Steve Ross (00:13:55):
Way? It wasn't as a businessman. An inventor is not a businessman.

David Segal (00:13:59):
It's

Harley Finkelstein (00:13:59):
More of a scientist. Yeah,

Steve Ross (00:14:00):
It's a scientist. I mean more the creative side of things.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:04):
I mean, the irony of course is that if he would've maybe got into business with your uncle, he could have made stuff. Your uncle could have commercialized it.

Steve Ross (00:14:10):
It would've been great. But he and my uncle never got away. They didn't. Okay, okay. My uncle was always, people always were going to, my uncle, as I can recall, asking for things, and Max would always say no to anything. I mean, I know when I went to him and my father would say to him, told me, never expect anything from your uncle. He's not going to be there.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:34):
But you went to him at some point and you asked him to help you with school. They paid your master's.

Steve Ross (00:14:39):
No, I think yes, the answer is yes. But he came and volunteered to me

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:47):
Without you asking.

Steve Ross (00:14:48):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (00:14:49):
And why would he do that?

Steve Ross (00:14:51):
I think he knew the economic situation of me, of our family. He'd give us his used cars, having a very rich uncle that everybody knew. So they all assumed that we were rich. You weren't, but I weren't. We had no money. I mean, virtually,

Harley Finkelstein (00:15:13):
It's actually almost harder that way because people assume you're wealthy. You're not,

Steve Ross (00:15:16):
But you're, and looking back at it. So it really instilled within me, if he can do it, I could do it.

(00:15:25):
So it was a great thing. And he wasn't there for me. He was always traveling. It wasn't like that. The greatest thing about him is that he owned the gasoline company, which was there, and they sponsored all the sports events. And I was a sports fan, so I had the best seats for the baseball, football, hockey. Amazing. And I got him free. He didn't have, he had a child. His wife had died early and she was sick. And my cousin went to school in St. Louis to a boarding school, and she was young for two years. She lived with us. But anyway, so he was always, I could call his office anytime and ask for the tickets. So I had the best tickets for every sporting events. Didn't cost. That's amazing. Money. So that was a fun.

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:20):
That's pretty good. Yeah. You wished been very popular kid at that stage.

Steve Ross (00:16:22):
Well, I mean popular, but I mean, it was enjoyable. It was enjoyable.

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:26):
A younger man's dream.

Steve Ross (00:16:28):
You don't think of it that way. Kids don't think

Harley Finkelstein (00:16:30):
Of that. It's interesting though, you had all this entrepreneurial success around you, but if you sort of think about your early, your teenage years, your early twenties, you got kind of hyper educated. I mean, you went pretty deep on to law school. You got a master's. Why did you do that given you had so much entrepreneurial influence around

Steve Ross (00:16:52):
You? I didn't know what I was, I mean, I grew up, it wasn't like I grew up with riches. It was just a good Midwestern lifestyle. That was the emphasis. It was not about money. It was sports. It's a great place to grow up in Michigan.

David Segal (00:17:16):
And then I believe your father had to go run the hotel, right? His father's hotel. And you guys had

Steve Ross (00:17:21):
No, no, no. What happened was, I mean, he had invented the coffee vending machine and he had big aspirations. He had some good years.

Harley Finkelstein (00:17:33):
So like a coffee vending machine like you seen in hospital, for example.

Steve Ross (00:17:36):
Well, you put in money and then a cup of coffee. It's a big idea. It was a big idea. It was a big idea. It was a big idea. And I mean, just to show you, he was probably the first person to do it. And he was offered by Ven, which became a huge company, and other companies wanted to do it. I mean, he had no manufacturing capabilities, and this one company offered him a great deal, but then went bankrupt, and that was the end of it. So what he thought he would be very successful. It didn't happen. And by then people had figured out he had copyrights or patents. He didn't even really get paid for that. And so at that point in time, my grandfather was sick. He had a hotel in Florida, and my father went down there to really look after the hotel. And it was at that point, one of the best hotels in Miami Beach until they built a fountain. It was only 150 rooms, but it was very, very,

Harley Finkelstein (00:18:45):
The Martinique,

Steve Ross (00:18:47):
Was it called Martinique?

Harley Finkelstein (00:18:47):
Martinique,

Steve Ross (00:18:48):
Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:18:48):
Do you remember spending time there? Oh

Steve Ross (00:18:49):
Yeah. A lot of time.

Harley Finkelstein (00:18:50):
Was that fun?

Steve Ross (00:18:51):
Yeah, it was great. I mean, your grandfather and your father's managing the hotel,

Speaker 5 (00:18:56):
And

Steve Ross (00:18:57):
It was a great good spot. Then they built a fountain blue and Eden Rock and Miami Beach really saw the changes that were occurring in Miami Beach. It wasn't a place I really wanted to go to because it was like all New Yorkers and I'm from Michigan, and trust me, there's a

Harley Finkelstein (00:19:17):
Difference. Big difference.

Steve Ross (00:19:18):
Yeah, there's a big difference. So

Harley Finkelstein (00:19:21):
Back to sort of the education stuff. You said you weren't sure what you wanted to do. Did you think about going to university and then going to law school as optionality?

Steve Ross (00:19:29):
Well, no. Actually when I was in school, we moved to Florida. You don't know how good a student you were. I was never, they didn't have though gifted classes or anything. And I did well in classes that I liked, and I was probably somewhat lazy in those days. Most good entrepreneurs have some laziness. At least my father would accuse me of that. And what can you say? But I would go to, when I got to Florida, I mean, I hated there. I hated moving there. I mean, they moved me in April, Easter time of my freshman year in high school.

Speaker 5 (00:20:11):
I

Steve Ross (00:20:11):
Mean, you can't think of a worst time to enter a high school that you don't know one person. And so they thought I would adjust to it because my sister, they kept back, because I always got along with people well, and I didn't have, but I said, why'd you do that? I instantly hated the play. Well, I didn't know anybody, so you're not going to, and so they're all New Yorkers, and they were all different than I knew. They were different than I was. I didn't know the difference until I

Harley Finkelstein (00:20:39):
Got there. Even back then, people that were Miami were from New York pretty much.

Steve Ross (00:20:42):
Oh, yeah. Just about everybody. New York, Brooklyn, and all that. And I really did poorly in school. I mean, I didn't want to go back for the 10th grade. So I went and looked at a military school, spent two days there. I said, no, I don't want this either. So I

Harley Finkelstein (00:21:04):
Jewish kids don't do great military schools, is what I've noticed most. I don't take orders very well.

Steve Ross (00:21:09):
That's right. I mean, that's one thing I don't do.

David Segal (00:21:12):
Most don't do football either though. But you seem very into that, right?

Steve Ross (00:21:16):
Well, I love sports, so we played it. But anyway, so I went to school and dad had terrible grades. I mean, teachers told me, I'm wasting my time. Told my parents they're wasting their time sending me to college. I mean, that's how bad a student I was. And then I only got accepted to the University of Florida because they had state exams, and if you got above a certain score, they had to accept you. And then they tell you when you're there. I mean, you knew it before you got there, but the speeches, look on your left, look on your right. The person sitting next to you won't be here next

David Segal (00:21:54):
Year. That's a famous Miguel one.

Steve Ross (00:21:55):
They failed harbor. They flunk out two, but they flunk out. They're great on the curve. Two thirds of the

Harley Finkelstein (00:22:02):
Freshmen. So they accept everybody and then weed out.

Steve Ross (00:22:05):
They did. Then University of Florida is a great school

Harley Finkelstein (00:22:09):
School.

Steve Ross (00:22:12):
I couldn't even rush in the fraternity, be beyond the books because I had such bad grades and getting into school, I mean, I ended up doing very well, and I transferred to Michigan. How

Harley Finkelstein (00:22:26):
Was that? How was Michigan?

Steve Ross (00:22:27):
I always wanted to go to Michigan. It was always my dream.

David Segal (00:22:33):
But Steve,

Steve Ross (00:22:34):
I guess I didn't have any really something that was really pushing me or any goals or anything. I had no idea what I wanted to do. I was good with numbers. I liked business. You know what I mean? So mean when I was in college, I majored in accounting. I mean, I can only imagine myself being an accountant.

David Segal (00:22:55):
What was the moment for you? I mean, you went from being a horrible student to a very good student, right? Was there something along the way? What clicked for

Steve Ross (00:23:02):
You? Well, I mean, first of all, I knew I had nothing. I didn't have any business. I didn't know anything in life does want to become successful. I mean, I could see it with my uncle. It's not the guy I didn't grow up looking at from afar and wanting that success. And I wasn't going to get it. It wasn't going to inherit in anything. So it was, I mean, obviously the drive is something that was uncovered, or at least I grew. So even today, I had no idea. I could even have dreamt where I am today.

Harley Finkelstein (00:23:43):
And I bet your uncle could never have dreamt that either.

Steve Ross (00:23:45):
No. I mean, it's funny. He didn't know one if a good student or smart. I have no idea what he thought. You know what I mean? He probably had a little guilt because his family, and he was always traveling, always. Really. He would think the family came second, and you probably did. But it's something that I would go to a lot of these dinners where he's being honored and hearing him speak and what he stood for and all that. So he was like a role model,

Speaker 5 (00:24:23):
But

Steve Ross (00:24:24):
Nothing. But he wasn't a mentor that was telling me or I would go to for advice. It was more from afar, but instilling within me, I guess sometimes you don't know what's really driving you. I mean, we don't know ourselves oftentimes as well as we think we do. Or certain people are gifted and know what they want to be, and they just go down that path. Or their parents that instilled it within them so early that they know where they're going. I had no idea where I was

Harley Finkelstein (00:24:58):
Going. Although there was drive, there was ambition. If you sort follow, you go back to college, you go to Florida, then to Michigan, you then end up going to law school and eventually actually becoming

Steve Ross (00:25:09):
A, I didn't know what I wanted to

Harley Finkelstein (00:25:10):
Do. But still, most people, I mean, I went to law school also to become an entrepreneur. I didn't know what I wanted to do either. I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. Someone's told me that law school would be finishing school for entrepreneurs, but he was even more specific. Wait, tax law.

Steve Ross (00:25:24):
I had no degree

Harley Finkelstein (00:25:26):
To why. Yeah,

Steve Ross (00:25:26):
Why? I mean, they had this thing called the Vietnam War, and we've

Harley Finkelstein (00:25:32):
Heard about it.

Steve Ross (00:25:32):
And if you were 26 years old, you got deferred. And I didn't want to really go in the army. I didn't believe in the war

Harley Finkelstein (00:25:40):
Back to being told what to do.

Steve Ross (00:25:43):
I guess I don't do. Well, let me tell you, if I could probably look back at it and think, what I don't do well is being told what to do. What to do. That's right. And I've been fortunate. I mean, ever since I started the business, I've never really had a partner, and I never really had to go out and raise or listen to somebody.

David Segal (00:26:03):
Wait, you've never had a partner, you've

Steve Ross (00:26:05):
Done, I've had partners in deals and I had partners of guys who worked for me. I had a hundred percent of the control from the day I started, and I still do today and always had the one vote.

David Segal (00:26:19):
That's so rare. Given the size of the projects you've done, did you think about that right at the start? You're like, I don't want partners.

Steve Ross (00:26:25):
No, not really just, but I mean, I guess I liked making decisions and I want to do things my way. And the more people that really are, if you have confidence in what you're doing and you're trying to really be best in class, you don't want to be compromising. I mean, at least you'll make the compromise what has to be.

Harley Finkelstein (00:26:52):
But that takes a lot of sort of self-awareness, but also a lot of courage that you can make those decisions on your own.

Steve Ross (00:26:58):
Well, I mean, I guess it was probably having the vision to see what the opportunities were and what the alternatives were. And I started the business from the standpoint when I saw I got fired.

Harley Finkelstein (00:27:11):
Yeah. So you got fired from Bear Stearns.

Steve Ross (00:27:13):
Twice, twice, twice. Twice. You guys know you. Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (00:27:16):
Yeah. So you from

Steve Ross (00:27:17):
Laird also?

Harley Finkelstein (00:27:17):
Yeah. So Laird got fired, then you get fired from Bear Stearns. That probably was the greatest. And you've said this, I think in our research we found it. You've said that getting fired was actually one of the best things to ever happen to you.

Steve Ross (00:27:27):
Yeah, I mean there I knew I wasn't going to go get another job.

(00:27:32):
I was living in New York and I didn't want to go back to Detroit. I mean, I had my law degrees. I didn't want to practice law, and I didn't know what I was going to do. I said, Hey, I want to stay in New York. I was loving New York. I told my mother, well, until I find something, maybe I'll drive a cab or something. I never got to that point. Then I guess confidence, success breeds success. So when I first started, I was making $25,000 a year, and the first year I went out and I wrote up a business plan that was unique to how I would set up with the company.

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:24):
And I mean, let's just set stage here. So it's 1972. I think when you start the company, you've been fired twice.

Steve Ross (00:28:31):
I got fired in Thanksgiving the week before Thanksgiving in 1970.

Harley Finkelstein (00:28:39):
Okay, so 1970, you get fired. Why'd you set up this company? What did that original business plan even look like?

Steve Ross (00:28:47):
What happened was I was working, I guess the company at Laird and then also at Bear Stearns. I kind of studied and I would see where I thought ideas, where direction things were going and what would be an idea that was unique at that point in time. So I kind of had this idea, and I found two guys that I had met that this was dealing with FHA insurance for building apartments, for subsidized housing was called, in those days, they had just passed the Johnson, the Great Society programs of Lyndon Johnson. And

Harley Finkelstein (00:29:30):
This was in an effort to give more people homes,

Steve Ross (00:29:32):
Right? They said at that point in time, I remember there was 26 million Americans that didn't have livable housing, if you'll call it that. And then they set up these programs. And so seeing that as an opportunity in the government subsidies, I found two guys who did the processing for the subsidy programs and then being a tax lawyer, these were being sold as tax shelters, which I had done when I was a tax lawyer. So then I saw that to develop it, you really made your money though in development, but you had to have another source of income. So syndicating being a tax lawyer, the tax shelters to wealthy investors. So I thought putting all this together and doing the mortgage processing all within one company, it was all diversified. Different people were doing all different parts.

Harley Finkelstein (00:30:42):
That's a hell of a combination. I mean, it's a hell of a,

David Segal (00:30:45):
I got to see if I got this straight just for our listeners too. So you took advantage, you built affordable housing, got the tax credits, and then you sold those to major developers, or you became a luxury developer on your own as well?

Steve Ross (00:30:56):
Well, no. My idea was to start a company, I had no

David Segal (00:30:59):
Money

Steve Ross (00:31:02):
By selling the tax losses, if you call it to wealthy investors, which was allowed then under the Coke. And knowing, and having done that, done the projections and understood

(00:31:15):
All the underlying rules and regulations, I was able to put together an offering brochure to sell those losses. But the best thing is then, and I also knew to be a developer, that's where the real money was. It was so cyclical, you had to have another source of income. And I didn't know anything about development. So I did know that and knew the programs that there was no risk on the real estate side if you could build the jobs and if you could get them. And then I saw the fact is, and what people wanted was just socially, they want something. You shouldn't be able to tell the difference between subsidized housing, affordable housing, and market rate. People want to be proud of where they lived.

Harley Finkelstein (00:32:06):
Sure. They didn't want to feel they

Steve Ross (00:32:07):
Government issues that go with It was just, I mean, that was probably just a feeling of it was just natural.

David Segal (00:32:15):
But at the start, you're basically a broker. You're not building anything. You have no money. So you're buying the losses and selling them to wealthy.

Steve Ross (00:32:21):
Well, at the same time, at the same time. So I had this idea of putting this

David Segal (00:32:25):
All in

Steve Ross (00:32:25):
One company. I found these two guys that I was, when Bear Stearns, I really found 'em at Laird. I took it with me to Bear Stearns. I got them to agree to put in 3 million this company. And I had worked on it, and they liked the idea, but I hated the guy I was working for. He had a total inferiority complex, and therefore the way he satisfied that was making people work for them, feel inferior.

David Segal (00:32:56):
He told you what

Harley Finkelstein (00:32:56):
To do.

Steve Ross (00:32:57):
No, not telling you what to do, but just letting you know that

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:01):
He's the boss.

Steve Ross (00:33:01):
Yeah, he's the boss, and that you don't know anything.

Harley Finkelstein (00:33:05):
So you were happy to move on from that.

Steve Ross (00:33:07):
So I mean, I got it approved this deal. I got it approved to Bear Stearns, and then I'm sitting in the meeting where they approved of the commitment meeting. And then the guy who I'd worked with, who was senior to me, but not a partner, he said, well, who's going to watch after this? The partner there did, and this other guy who I worked with is Steve. He's the one who put together, who knows it. The guy said, I don't have any confidence in Steve, but I knew, I mean, I couldn't stand this guy. I mean, I could tell stories about how and why this guy was really bad, and that night before I knew that if this got accepted, I'd be staying and working for this guy.

Speaker 5 (00:33:52):
And

Steve Ross (00:33:53):
I knew I couldn't do that. I just knew I couldn't do that. And he made it easy for you. So when he said to me, Hey, I don't have any confidence in Steve. I says, fuck you. I got no confidence in you in the meeting. Well, I got called into his office the next morning and I was given my release And you were fired. I was fired.

David Segal (00:34:13):
Do you ever call him years later?

Steve Ross (00:34:14):
No, I never saw the guy again.

(00:34:19):
It's funny how later on the senior partners and how I was successful, and even Henry Kravis, who office was next to me, we laugh about it. Oh, that's funny. Of course. KKR. Yeah, iconic. Now I can laugh about it. Maybe at that point in time. Well, let's go back. So then I got this job from a friend of mine who knew that I had these, I kind of created, took where things were and created ideas and companies around trends and trying to, and so that's why I got hired by Bear Stearns right after, I didn't even have to look for a job very much. You have him right away. But then I didn't realize this guy who I was working for.

Harley Finkelstein (00:34:59):
So you started this company. What's the first couple years of related? What's that like?

Steve Ross (00:35:04):
Well, I had no money, so I had to go out and do things and well, I was making 25,000 salary at Bear Stearns, and the first year I first wrote a paper I was going to do my vision of what I saw this company should be. I was going to go out and I was going to raise $3 million.

Harley Finkelstein (00:35:25):
Okay. Was it called related at that point?

Steve Ross (00:35:27):
No.

Harley Finkelstein (00:35:28):
Okay.

Steve Ross (00:35:28):
And then I was going to go out and have offices in all these geographical cities along the East coast where there was need for what they called subsidized housing. And I had arranged in every place. It was then handled locally by the different FHA offices or HUD offices. So I had 10 offices, and I found 10 guys who were great at what they're doing, put them together. And then we were going to do in New York the mortgage financing that can be done centrally and then get into development with each office. And I put that together so people love the idea of putting it together. But then I'd go out and raise some money and they'd say, have you ever done this? No. Have you ever run a company?

Harley Finkelstein (00:36:20):
No.

Steve Ross (00:36:20):
No. Do you

Harley Finkelstein (00:36:22):
Have any money?

Steve Ross (00:36:22):
Do I have any money? No. I am 30 years old. And so it's a great idea, but if you come back and you show you've done it. So I finally gave up on the idea. One guy offered me 10% of the companies, they'd put up 3 million. And I said, Hey, what's left for? I got to take care of all these people and I'm not going to work for 10%. The time I get diluted, I'm going to need more money. That's not why I'm setting up.

Harley Finkelstein (00:36:50):
So what do

Steve Ross (00:36:50):
You do, the company? So I just went out and I syndicated some other people's projects. I found developers, which I'd met and selling a tax shelter, and I got fees from that.

Harley Finkelstein (00:37:03):
But you weren't building equity at this point?

Steve Ross (00:37:05):
No, I was living.

Harley Finkelstein (00:37:06):
You were living, yeah.

Steve Ross (00:37:07):
The first thing in life, let me tell you, you always looked to take care of yourself. The fundamental needs of what you have there. It was paying for rent and being able to stay in New York to eat. So the first year, and I tied up some land, and I also was syndicated several other people's projects. So I made 150,000 in cash the first year.

Harley Finkelstein (00:37:33):
Pretty good.

Steve Ross (00:37:34):
So instead of going back and saying, Hey, look, I've done this. I said, Hey, this is too good. I'll just bootstrap it on a hundred percent. And I don't have time, plus I don't have time to go out and raise the money working.

David Segal (00:37:49):
And when you say syndicate, you were helping them get their tax shelters in affordable housing.

Steve Ross (00:37:55):
In other words, syndicate. I'd go to developers. They want to bring in investors. So I would make them offers that. I would then go out and find the investors to buy those

Harley Finkelstein (00:38:05):
S. You're almost an investment banker at that point. You would hustle up the funds.

Steve Ross (00:38:09):
But I was lucky. There was a fellow that was a Coopers and Lybrand that I worked for in Detroit, and we had Ford Motor Company as an investor, I mean as a client. And we had a lot of other super wealthy, and that's where I learned how to do these. And I learned the business doing the projections of what the tax losses were. So he believed in me and got me these investors that cost me nothing.

(00:38:44):
And then I met somebody in New York who had heard about it just out of nowhere, and he started putting his clients into my deals. And so I built up a stream and a reputation. I mean, the great thing about New York is that you think that you got to be knowing everybody. It's a lot easier to make money in New York than any other place because people will always listen to you. If you have an idea. They may not give you a lot of time, but if they believe in you, people are there to make money. That's why everybody is there, and they'll say that. And so I found that even memory said that's the hardest place is a jungle. If you ever want to start anything New York, the best place is New York.

Harley Finkelstein (00:39:30):
Wow. Do you think that's still the case today?

Steve Ross (00:39:32):
Yeah, probably. I mean, today there's still more money there than anywhere else. Sure. Of course. People are always looking to put it out.

David Segal (00:39:39):
That's

Steve Ross (00:39:39):
Why it's a money center.

David Segal (00:39:40):
And it runs counter though to the expression, if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. It's perceived to be the most difficult. Actually,

Steve Ross (00:39:46):
You can make it there. It's true. It is true. Well, I would think I always said that if I make it there, I always said that, but to me, starting something, if you've got something to say, and there's so many bright people, they're not going to waste their time, but they'll listen to you and give you maybe a short period of time. But if you do have something that's unique, I think it's probably the best place.

Harley Finkelstein (00:40:11):
And people are straightforward. It's a quick feedback loop,

Steve Ross (00:40:13):
Right? I mean,

Harley Finkelstein (00:40:14):
Well, they'll cut you loose. I mean, they have five other people waiting

Steve Ross (00:40:16):
For them. Detroit, I went to Detroit after law school. I wanted to be, at that point, I wanted to be successful. That kind of found out, hey, it was driven, right? I thought I had all these great contacts in Detroit and my uncle everywhere. I went, oh, this is Max Fisher's nephew. This is Max Fisher. And I got sick of being introduced to wherever I was, is Max Fisher's nephew. And that's the reason I left Detroit

Harley Finkelstein (00:40:44):
To

Steve Ross (00:40:44):
Go to New York

Harley Finkelstein (00:40:46):
And New York. You were Steven Ross. Nobody knew me. Right. But you liked that you can create your own reputation, your own brand.

Steve Ross (00:40:54):
Well, yeah, but I mean, you're right. I mean, I thought, you don't want to go through life someone else. And if I was successful, it was only be because of him. I

David Segal (00:41:03):
Mean, how do you take this basically a deal brokering business and turn it into affordable housing and development?

Steve Ross (00:41:09):
Well, it wasn't that. It was like the purpose in life was to build and be in the real estate development business, but I had to learn the business and you want to learn the business, and you could see all the business cycles that occurred, and they were much more frequent in those times. So it was something that when you started a business, especially in estate, you wanted to make sure you could withstand those business cycles and knowing you had to have other sources of income. So I used what I knew as in terms of being a so-called syndicator or selling of tax shelters, which then becomes the selling of investments. I took that as a way of getting income and doing it for other people's projects. So I became the largest, or one of the largest syndicators providing equity for affordable housing. Then I got into the debt business, and we became the largest provider of debt for these affordable multifamily projects. So it was always expanding the envelope constantly and knowing, I guess it was my a DD or whatever. I'd go into an area like affordable housing, and then I wanted to go into conventional multifamily housing, condos. So I would set up a division or somebody to do it with it, just like one division. It was one person,

Speaker 5 (00:42:43):
Division,

Steve Ross (00:42:44):
And I'd learn that business and then that person would run that business and I'd go into another business. And so we're probably today the only company that is involved in every aspect of real estate, and we're involved in every aspect of financing and all these other different businesses that go with it. And that's why the name related, everything is

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:06):
Related. It takes incredible patience. Yeah,

Steve Ross (00:43:08):
It's not patience. It takes age. It takes time. It takes time. Yeah. I mean, I'm not almost 85 for nothing.

David Segal (00:43:14):
Right? Yeah. But you had a vision right out of the gate where you wanted to develop, and how many years do you actually developed?

Steve Ross (00:43:20):
Well, I was developing, I mean, from 1972 when I really started, because the first year I was looking for capital in 71 and didn't really start a project and then incorporate in 72. But in 71, I was looking for the money for most of the year and then just made some money. I had to, $10,000 would only go so far. The rent was only $275 a month, so I could afford that.

Harley Finkelstein (00:43:53):
When you started these divisions, for example, you obviously put people in charge and you say, Hey, you go do that. How do you think about looking for talent? How do you spot potential? Because that's a big risk for

Steve Ross (00:44:03):
You? I guess it was probably more intuitive. I mean, I always was looking for smart people and hearing, always listening to other people, Hey, that guy's really smart. That guy's really good. And listening to him, and then I was able to attract people by giving him a percentage.

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:19):
You made them

Steve Ross (00:44:20):
Rich. Yeah, rich gave them, showing them. There was opportunity. Two guys I hired. Both of 'em became super rich, one billionaire, seven, and he took the ideas of what I had. I mean, you could talk to him today. He said, Hey, I learned everything.

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:41):
Does that make you proud?

Steve Ross (00:44:42):
Yeah. I like seeing people succeed.

Harley Finkelstein (00:44:44):
Me too. Yeah.

Steve Ross (00:44:44):
I mean, that's why I think you attract people because you don't look at him as workers. You look at 'em as partners and you work together as a team. I think the most important thing today is working together with people as a team as opposed to reporting style and being involved with them and understanding them. And I mean, I spent so much time working that you want to like the people that you work with, and you want bright people who are incentivized, who want to succeed and want to be best in class,

David Segal (00:45:17):
Which is interesting. You never had partners in terms of on equal footing, but you made people that worked for you, work with you and made them partners.

Steve Ross (00:45:27):
You worked as a team. That's what you're looking for. And they did well. I mean, I've made a lot of people that work for me, a lot of millionaires. I mean some billionaires. So

Harley Finkelstein (00:45:41):
That's incredible.

Steve Ross (00:45:42):
But I think it's how you look at people. I mean, I love what I'm doing and I have the passion for it. So therefore, you're looking for people also who have that passion for it, but they're good people. I mean, the most important thing is you're dealing with good people. It's not just all about the money.

Harley Finkelstein (00:46:00):
Yeah. Well, it's interesting. When we sat down here today, I made a joke to you and I said, I'm looking around your office here. You're going to be 85 in a few months. Most people at 85 are sort of down shifting and turning it down. You just started a brand new company recently. Why would you start a brand new company, 85 years old?

Steve Ross (00:46:19):
I mean, I don't believe you ever want to be in a position where you'll wake up in the morning and you're wondering what you're going to do. I mean, what more is keeping your mind active, growing? You're not getting ready to die, and why should you put yourself in that position mean? But that speaks to life's work, but it keeps you alive. You understand it's the healthiest thing for you too, probably.

Harley Finkelstein (00:46:42):
Do you have friends that have gone the other way and you've seen the effects it? Yeah.

Steve Ross (00:46:45):
I live down here in

Harley Finkelstein (00:46:46):
Palm

Steve Ross (00:46:47):
Beach.

Harley Finkelstein (00:46:47):
In Palm Beach.

Steve Ross (00:46:48):
Most people, I mean, they call themselves working. They work. They're working at the golf club. Well mean golf, you can only play so much, and actually the less you play, the worse you are. And therefore, my golf game has never been as bad as it is today. Am I used to be a decent golfer? Now? I don't now. You don't have the time. I don't have any time for it. Unbelievable. But I mean, when you're doing something you like and you're good at it, you're going to want to continue it, right? I mean, people enjoy success.

David Segal (00:47:26):
When did you fall in love with real estate development?

Steve Ross (00:47:29):
I mean, it's a creative aspect and the impact in life, it's tangible. You can look at it and it impacts you can impact things around you and the type of projects. So I mean, at this stage, I want to do impactful projects. And so what I'm doing down here now, it's probably the most impactful things I could do. I mean, yeah, I built Hudson Yards. I went from affordable housing and kept on growing because in life, you don't want to go backwards. You want to continue to grow and learn. I mean, learning and doing things is probably the greatest gift you could possibly have

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:10):
If you like what you're doing. Let's talk about Hudson Yards, because that really changed the landscape of Manhattan. I mean, that really played a role in altering what Manhattan would be sort of before and after. Tell us a story of how that happened, why that happened.

Steve Ross (00:48:26):
Well, I mean, probably the most transformative one. I mean, I saw the benefits of mixed use development,

Harley Finkelstein (00:48:35):
Mixed use being residential, retail office.

Steve Ross (00:48:38):
Yeah, altogether. Altogether. Hotels. Hotels together. And also the one trend that you want between resiliency and congestion, what people are trying to get away from and just the future in doing mixed use type of projects, live, work, and play. So this project here was the first one we did. The city place. City place. It was too far ahead of my time

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:12):
When I was in high school in South Florida. I used to come to City Place. And even at that point, this is in the nineties, it was a very unique project.

Steve Ross (00:49:22):
It was very unique. We're way ahead of our time. The market wasn't ready for it. It was too seasonal down here. If you came here in April, December through probably March and beginning of April, it was great. But then after that, it was just so seasonal. The retailers couldn't make it. And they started. We had great, great retailers to start.

David Segal (00:49:44):
You held onto it all this time.

Steve Ross (00:49:45):
Yeah. I felt an obligation. I thought I built something. It was like an attractive nuisance.

Harley Finkelstein (00:49:51):
An attractive nuisance,

Steve Ross (00:49:53):
Because couldn't make it economically. So I didn't want to lose it. I hadn't given a project back to a lender, and I never have.

Speaker 5 (00:50:05):
Wow.

Steve Ross (00:50:07):
And I felt an obligation to the city. This was really an area that would've, if it would've gotten into somebody else's hands, people buy foreclosed distress. Real estate

Harley Finkelstein (00:50:20):
Responsibility to a city. Just to say the thing is not something that's very common from a developer. Most developers, their main objective is profit. You held onto an asset that didn't necessarily make a lot of money, took a loss. Took a loss.

Steve Ross (00:50:33):
Huge loss, huge loss. For 25 years.

Harley Finkelstein (00:50:35):
25 years, you took that loss, but you held onto it because of responsibility to this city. That's kind of unbelievable.

Steve Ross (00:50:43):
But you know what? It's funny how life pays your back. I mean, right now, this is the hottest spot and probably the best real estate in this country. And what's happening here today in what we're doing, it is the best location. And since I paid for it all, I didn't borrow money to keep it around. It's all upside. That's written off all that money. It's like I have no money in the deal other than what mortgages I owe on the existing buildings.

David Segal (00:51:12):
Now it's a 30 year overnight success.

Steve Ross (00:51:14):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The way it's stated. I mean, I'm able to do things because I don't have any land cost,

Harley Finkelstein (00:51:23):
Right?

Steve Ross (00:51:24):
It's right in the middle. And we're starting, well, you can't see out the window here, but we're starting. We're have groundbreaking tomorrow for a million square foot office building. I mean to think of in West Palm Beach that you're starting a million square foot office building is incredible. And it's 60%. Wow.

David Segal (00:51:44):
And I believe you've made a deal with the Cleveland Clinic and Vanderbilt. Do I have it right?

Steve Ross (00:51:48):
Well, Vanderbilt's a different it, a school

Harley Finkelstein (00:51:51):
There. Even just back to sort of that responsibility, David mentioned Cleveland Clinic. You spent your own money to help move and create a Cleveland Clinic down here. You spend your own money to bring a Vanderbilt sort of offshoot down here. What is it about this particular place in the world, west Palm Beach, Palm Beach,

Steve Ross (00:52:09):
That you connect to? What I see, what I saw was that this world is changing. We're going through changing. We've never before. It's going to transfer, going from the second industrial revolution to the third, every segment of the world, communication, transportation, you name it, is changing and change is opportunity. And you can just see the political changes that are occurring in this country. And so Florida is probably, if not the best, it's tied for the best. It's a business state.

Harley Finkelstein (00:52:44):
Yeah, it's a recipient of almost,

Steve Ross (00:52:46):
But it hasn't really gotten a lot of business here, even though it's such a great business state, because there's no income taxes here. They love business unions. It's open shop, so you don't have to really,

David Segal (00:53:04):
Weather's not too shabby either.

Steve Ross (00:53:05):
Weather's not too bad. And then you compare. People always talk about all the national disasters, but they're all throughout.

Harley Finkelstein (00:53:17):
Yeah, you have it everywhere.

Steve Ross (00:53:18):
They had it everywhere today and today because we had all these hurricanes. The codes and here are stricter than anywhere else. And typically today with the building codes, the worst we really suffer is, well, it's flooding, but therefore you put your utilities above grade, way above grade, so you don't have that issue. And between the wind with category five building codes that really protect you, what are you going to have? You're going to have a lot of broken trees. Which landscape would you

Harley Finkelstein (00:53:58):
Replant?

Steve Ross (00:53:59):
And in Florida, they grow fast. So not,

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:02):
I want to go back though to Hudson Yards in particular and sort this concept of work, play, and live. And this concept of mixed use, Hudson Yards. What was it before? I mean, it was yards. I mean,

Steve Ross (00:54:14):
Right.

David Segal (00:54:16):
It

Steve Ross (00:54:16):
Was a wasteland.

David Segal (00:54:17):
Yeah, that's right. It was waste a wasteland. But just to set the stage for what was at stake here. I mean, I believe this was very strategically important for Bloomberg and Dan Doctoroff. Right? I mean, this was an important project for the city,

Steve Ross (00:54:27):
But it was going to be where they had the Olympic stadium on one half of the arts.

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:34):
So it's going to be the Olympics stadium

Steve Ross (00:54:35):
There. It's all below it. It's still all rail yards. Interesting. It's not like they went anywhere. We built above the rail yards there.

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:44):
So when the Olympics stadium was no longer to be built, is that when you got involved and said, Hey,

Steve Ross (00:54:49):
Yeah, they then had an RFP for that, and then

Harley Finkelstein (00:54:55):
He lost it? I mean, yeah,

Steve Ross (00:54:56):
I lost it initially. Everybody thought we were going to win it. I had NewsCorp who was going to take the space the day before the bids were due. I got a phone call from NewsCorp that they weren't going to go forward. So our plan was going in Monday morning. I hear Sunday night, they're not there. What do you do? So we lost. I couldn't do it. I mean, I couldn't do anything. And then I get a phone call. I guess that was 2000 and 2008, I guess, just before the crash. The crash. And then the crash occurred after, but the people slowed down. They pulled out. And then, so Tishman Spire won it, and then about April of that year, they pulled out

Speaker 5 (00:55:56):
Why?

Steve Ross (00:55:58):
Because you could start feeling the economics strain. And I guess their tenants pulled out, which was, I think Merle Lynch and I don't know exactly remember which ones. So then I got a phone call, would I still be interested? And I mean, the crash hadn't occurred yet. So I said yes. And so they were very anxious. They said, we don't want to go out to bid again, but we can go back to the original bidders. And so we were the only one of the original bidders that still had an interest. Wow. So I said to them, send me the papers that you already approved, and I'll tell you if I can live with those papers. So I had the benefit of already what was negotiated perfect. And then I was able to then change what I wanted to, but at least I had a starting point. Amazing.

David Segal (00:56:59):
This is one of the biggest financial crashes ever. Right?

Steve Ross (00:57:03):
But that hadn't occurred yet.

David Segal (00:57:04):
Oh, it hadn't

Harley Finkelstein (00:57:04):
Prior. The history part is you basically got it because you were the last man standing.

Steve Ross (00:57:09):
Right? Exactly. Yeah, that's a good way. Whatever.

Harley Finkelstein (00:57:13):
And so you end up getting, what do you think at that point? Are you excited by this?

Steve Ross (00:57:16):
I'm excited, but I knew, Hey, when you build something like that, I'm always looking forward to it. I mean, I think I always have lived with the idea that the more impactful jobs you're doing, more exciting. It is. And you're learning and you're creating a real reason for what you're doing. But that's why that was great. And I did that. But now what I'm doing now has never been done before. What I'm doing down here in Florida.

Harley Finkelstein (00:57:49):
Why is it so different?

Steve Ross (00:57:51):
Well, I'm looking at the whole county, and I really believe this will become the most important place in America going forward, because Florida is such a great business state. Number one, the fact is the change occurring businesses don't want to. And what's our biggest industry going forward? It's all tech oriented. And they don't want to start firms of California anymore because of the rules.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:25):
Not as friendly regulations. That's right.

Steve Ross (00:58:26):
And 15% taxes off the top. And dealing with the kind of government that is not really pro business. So we're in the country. Texas is taking advantage. Austin Pacific. Austin. Dallas is going like crazy. But to me, that's like a foreign country. People like Florida, everybody's had a good experience.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:48):
Yeah, everyone's been here.

Steve Ross (00:58:49):
Everybody's been here. But it liked it. They left. But it's never been a business state.

Harley Finkelstein (00:58:54):
And

Steve Ross (00:58:54):
If you look at it, south Florida is totally different than the rest of Florida. Right? So the growth, the rest of Florida is like back offices. Tourism a little defense over in Cape Canaveral with the space industry. But South Florida has really gotten to be very expensive, very crowded, because more people are here, higher income levels in South Florida, higher educational levels in South Florida. And so

Harley Finkelstein (00:59:25):
Your hobby project is effectively to make South Florida this incredible magnet for talent.

Steve Ross (00:59:31):
That's what I,

Harley Finkelstein (00:59:31):
You're building the city.

Steve Ross (00:59:34):
I'm taking a county.

(00:59:36):
And you saw the growth of what the impact was in Silicon Valley. And if you look at the analogy between San Francisco and Silicon Valley, I mean, you had all the money in San Francisco and you had Stanford University, and it started the whole tech business from those two places with the US Defense Department really supplying the need for technology, silicon chips. And that started in what we see today. And then if you look at that, the same thing here. So we went out, when I looked at this place living here and knowing how the world was changing, I looked at it, well, this has all the advantages, but what doesn't it have that would preclude it from happening? So I said, and I looked at it, had to have education, it had to have hospitals, it had to have recreation. So just to start with, so we started dealing with all the infrastructure. I had to bring a hospital. So I went out and I found Cleveland Clinic,

Harley Finkelstein (01:00:43):
Not a hospital. The hospital, I

Steve Ross (01:00:45):
Mean, well, I had to have a brand. I wanted people to take notice of it by the brands that we were attracting the best, right? So we got Cleveland Clinic.

Harley Finkelstein (01:00:53):
So you bring Cleveland Clinic down, you need education. You bring Vanderbilt to bring

Steve Ross (01:00:57):
Vanderbilt here, and they're bringing their graduate business engineering innovation schools. Here.

Harley Finkelstein (01:01:06):
I have a conversation with Vanderbilt and say, we want you to build campus. And so it's massive campus.

Steve Ross (01:01:12):
Well, I mean, the first will be a thousand students. It's all graduate. But we heard they were looking, Miami was trying to attract somebody, but Miami. And the reason why it's Palm Beach County is that when you look and you see South Florida being different than the rest of the state, and then you then say, well, okay, that's Miami Dade County, Broward and Palm Beach counties. Alright. So Miami, having went to school, knowing Miami, been down there, obviously long time dolphins and all that. It can't be Miami. It's so congested. It's the world's most exciting city. It has a different culture than the country, but it still has no room for growth. I mean, if you go there and there's not a city probably in the country that has as much congestion. It does, and it's a fun place, but you can't bring big companies

Harley Finkelstein (01:02:09):
There.

Steve Ross (01:02:11):
Broward County is very small, fully built out, almost it'll densify by tearing things down and making them bigger. And then you have Palm Beach County. That's the largest county in the state. In fact, it's the largest county east of the Mississippi. And Miami Dade has 2.7 million people. Broward County has 2 million and there's 1.5 here in Palm Beach.

Harley Finkelstein (01:02:37):
Biggest land all way, smallest population,

Steve Ross (01:02:39):
And it has the wealthy. Then you look at it, it has the wealthiest place in America, in the world time, the year right here in Palm Beach. So Steve,

David Segal (01:02:48):
You have this big vision to build effectively, major enhancement to the city of West Palm. What did some of the lessons you learned, I mean, you specialize in complex real estate projects, Hudson Yards, time Warner Center. What are some of the lessons that you learned on those massive, complex projects?

Steve Ross (01:03:03):
I know you have to, first of all, to attract people, you have to have the infrastructure to handle it.

(01:03:09):
So that's what we'd spent the last three years, two years, even since COVID, when I saw the possibilities of getting the hospital, getting the schools, getting the K through 12, we got to get a great private K through 12 and have other charter schools backed up. Education is so important to grow companies here. So we worked and then dealing with the city and everybody is looking at Miami. We see the opportunities here and not Miami. And so it was like a blank slate, if you will. I mean, there were a lot of developers of residential, but we're the only ones that are really building offices and mixed use projects. But also knowing I have to deliver, which I started in affordable housing, so I have to be able to do that. So we've created a venture with the largest developer or builder in the

Speaker 5 (01:04:09):
Country

Steve Ross (01:04:10):
That can build affordable housing for this county. So we're looking at every little detail,

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:16):
But how do you have the wherewithal is Dave's question. We studied the Time Warner Center, which you built in 2004. We studied Hudson Yards, we studied some of the stuff you've done in Shanghai and Dubai. These build periods are so long. There's so many at every single, I'm sure on a weekly basis. There's someone that tells you you can't do something. How do you not lose momentum? How do you not lose?

Steve Ross (01:04:41):
You have a lot of projects going at the same time,

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:43):
So

Steve Ross (01:04:43):
It's all processed,

Harley Finkelstein (01:04:45):
Right? But aren't you sort of whack-a-mole? Well, it's all processed.

David Segal (01:04:47):
Tell us about that.

Steve Ross (01:04:49):
First of all, I think it's going to start with the attitude that it's not how much money you're making in the interest of the community and listening to what is needed. I think that's probably, if there's any one thing that's I think separated me from other developers, I started with no money. So I won in public competitions. I had to go because I couldn't to carry land. That's what breaks, everybody is carrying land because there's no income to come in, in bad times. And so I had to, in the best way was to win it through public competitions. When the cities or states or whatever were putting out RFPs for development proposals. So I mean, I probably won when I first started business, over 90% of those. Wow.

Harley Finkelstein (01:05:45):
Without the experience and with the money.

Steve Ross (01:05:47):
That's it. That's why I won in New York in back in 19 71, 72 Riverwalk or something? No, it was 76. Was that your first big break? I won it, but then it was never built. I spent, well, then it cost me 5 million. I brought in a partner, Cadillac Fairview, which was then the largest developer.

Harley Finkelstein (01:06:12):
Can I get the Brooklyn family? Yeah,

Steve Ross (01:06:14):
Right. Broman,

Harley Finkelstein (01:06:15):
Neil Kohlberg, I think, right?

Steve Ross (01:06:16):
Yes.

(01:06:17):
And so I went it with them as a partner, and it would've been the largest mixed use project in New York. And I spent five years getting it approved. They went through a transformation. I ended up with a project, I lost it. I didn't sue the city. Everybody said, you have a lawsuit against the city. And I said, Hey, I'm going to do business here. I'm not going to do well in the long run by suing the city. So I didn't sue the city, even though to then at that point, it was a lot of money. But it's like you want to do the right thing. And real estate is a great thing because it's something that you can look at and always say, Hey, what impact it has? And you want to keep managing the project and you want to be proud of what you're doing. For sure. I

Harley Finkelstein (01:07:09):
Mean, there's a little bit of don'ts with the small stuffs also that you talk about. I mean, you could have sued the city. You didn't because you had a much longer term vision. If you are projecting a 20 or 30 year horizon or 50 horizon on every project, you are going to outcompete everybody. Short-term focused.

Steve Ross (01:07:26):
Yeah. I have a long-term focus. Yeah, really long term. But the reason you're able to do that, if you're working on enough projects, always busy. There's always a project. There's always something to be doing. It's easier said than done. That's right. Well, I was fortunate, and that was just that guess my mindset and my game plan. So I had a game plan of how to do it in my own mind. And like you said, I didn't have to go out and convince partners to do it, but they all bought in. I mean, you work with people, you don't tell them what to do.

David Segal (01:08:02):
You

Steve Ross (01:08:02):
Work, you bring 'em along, but you

David Segal (01:08:04):
Just lost 5 million bucks. And this was supposed to be your first big break. I mean, yes, you have a long-term vision, but

Steve Ross (01:08:11):
Where'd you go from there? It reported. No, I was making enough money on all my other,

Harley Finkelstein (01:08:15):
Your other stuff too that you were able to your syndicating and

Steve Ross (01:08:19):
Developing. At that point, I'd become a decent sized developer.

Harley Finkelstein (01:08:23):
Got it. Okay. So I have to ask, we were sitting here, obviously in your office here in Palm Beach and West Palm Beach, and in 2008, recessions, recession's coming. Maybe you see it, maybe you're not sure what's going to happen. Most people are taken by surprise by the financial crisis. But you did something that I think for David and I, and I think all the entrepreneurs that are watching, it's quite remarkable, which is that you ended up buying a football team. Now you're just to be clear, I mean, you're someone who played football, you've loved sports your whole life. You didn't have a lot of money growing up that move, that decision to buy a professional sports team. To me, that's like, we don't have royalty in America, but we have as sports team owners, and

Steve Ross (01:09:11):
I don't know if that's royalty,

Harley Finkelstein (01:09:13):
But it's our version of that here in North America. But middle class Jewish kid from Detroit working his butt off for decades decides in 2008, I'm going to buy the Miami Dolphins. What's that? How did that happen?

Steve Ross (01:09:30):
I mean, one people said, well, why'd you do it? I said, because I could afford it. So I mean, that was the simple

Harley Finkelstein (01:09:36):
Answer. Yeah, that's a very kind way of saying, because I could,

Steve Ross (01:09:39):
Right.

(01:09:39):
But I mean, I always loved it and I wanted to have a team, and I'd done some work for the NFL in siding. They had asked me to do a study where they should put a stadium in Los Angeles, and I got to meet Roger Del, and he calls me one day and I was thinking of actually moving to California. We had an office there building up an apartment and a great condo, and I was going to take the top floor. But anyway, he calls me, he asked me if Miami Dolphins were for sale, if I'd be interested, and I said, I got to think about it. We talked a little bit.

Harley Finkelstein (01:10:18):
Had you thought about that before? Was that something on your mind?

Steve Ross (01:10:20):
Well, it was about owning a team. About only a team, but not the dolphins. Yeah. I didn't know they were for sale or anything

David Segal (01:10:25):
Like that. Yeah. You had a few run-ins with different sports teams, I think A where you tried to buy a couple.

Steve Ross (01:10:29):
Yeah. I tried to buy the Patriots when they were for sale, and I owned a team in the USFL because I saw the fact that I could probably end up, I read the lawsuit and I thought they would win. When I read the lawsuit, they did win, but they only got a dollar.

David Segal (01:10:47):
Which, but you read the lawsuit?

Steve Ross (01:10:49):
Yeah, someone brought it to me and said, Hey, you should, he was trying for me to put money into the Houston. I forget what they were called anyway. And so it cost me a million and a half hours to pay the players. And I ended up with a team for free because I read the lawsuit and I thought they were going to win this antitrust suit. And they did win it, but I was going to move it to New York because both teams were playing in New Jersey and I was going to play in New York and figured I'd move it there. And that's where I met Donald Trump and he wanted to be partners. He owned the New Jersey Generals in the USFL. And so we tried to merge. Never happened. But

Harley Finkelstein (01:11:39):
That was your way in, you thought to the NFL

Steve Ross (01:11:41):
Ultimately? Yeah. Well, I thought it was going to win that lawsuit, and I own a team really cheap. So I gambled of million and a half dollars turned out to be, I had 3 million invested. I got back 2 million of the 3 million when they did win the lawsuit, because it was an antitrust suit, and you get T trouble damages plus your legal fees. And my legal fees brought back $2 million. Right. So that was

Harley Finkelstein (01:12:06):
Pretty good. It was pretty good. So Roger Goodell is talking to you about,

Steve Ross (01:12:09):
Then he asked me, he called to see if I'd be interested in buying the Dolphins because Wayne Heising was going to sell it. So I said that I, let me think about it. Then before I hung up, he said, yeah, you know what? I'll buy it. You said that? Yeah, on the phone.

Harley Finkelstein (01:12:25):
At the end of the call, I'll buy it.

Steve Ross (01:12:26):
I said, yeah, no, rather, yeah, I want to buy it. It was impetuous. But

David Segal (01:12:33):
This is in the middle of the financial credit.

Steve Ross (01:12:35):
It 2008? No, it wasn't in the middle. I mean, it was like a year before.

(01:12:43):
Okay. It was a year before. But I had done two things that I think that I could see. One thing I learned from my uncle back in around 2008 and all that, before the financial crisis, we were bound in liquidity in this country, in the world. And I said, this can't last forever. And I remembered waking up one night saying and doing that. I know my uncle told me that when there was oil everywhere, he made a long-term contract with Ohio Oil, which became marathon, that they'd supply him his crude. So he would always have crude oil, and

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:27):
He locked it in when there was a lot available,

Steve Ross (01:13:28):
When there was a lot available, and there was a lot of liquidity. There's not always going to be liquidity, but I said, how am I going to get liquidity because it's not going to last forever. And so I sold a piece of the company and I pocketed about a big and a half dollars

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:42):
Cash.

Steve Ross (01:13:43):
Cash. Who'd you

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:43):
Sell to?

Steve Ross (01:13:45):
Three to four of the funds in Middle Eastern Funds. Okay.

Harley Finkelstein (01:13:57):
Sovereign Wealth funds kind. Right. So wealth funds. Yeah. Okay. So you pocketed a billion and a half cash

Steve Ross (01:14:02):
Selling a piece of the company. Got it. None of the company went in the company. None of the money went in. The company at all

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:08):
Came to you. I

Steve Ross (01:14:08):
Took it all out and I had the money in which to buy the football team.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:13):
And also you did it year before the global crisis, right?

Steve Ross (01:14:17):
Yeah. I mean a great move. It was a great move. Great move.

David Segal (01:14:20):
Was the company during the global financial crisis?

Steve Ross (01:14:23):
Yeah. Because yes.

David Segal (01:14:25):
You had enough liquidity of your project. Oh

Steve Ross (01:14:26):
Yeah. Yeah. By then, I mean, I started coming in 72. That's 2000 I sold. It had a valuation then of about five and a half billion dollars.

Speaker 6 (01:14:38):
Wow.

Steve Ross (01:14:40):
And I sold 25% of the company.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:42):
So you had stayed, but I

Steve Ross (01:14:43):
Took it all out.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:44):
You took it all out?

Steve Ross (01:14:45):
Yeah. None of it stayed. I didn't need it for the company.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:47):
The companies did good fight. Yeah, that went steep. Which meant that when Roger Goodell offers you the Dolphins, you got money for it.

Steve Ross (01:14:54):
Right? I had money.

Harley Finkelstein (01:14:56):
Did you think about, is this going to be a good investment or was the Dolphins a passion play for you? How did you think about

Steve Ross (01:15:01):
It? No, I said, because it wasn't simultaneous. So I always said, no one's ever lost money buying an NFL team ever. If you did, you had to be something wrong with

Harley Finkelstein (01:15:17):
You. Although some of the prices people are paying now for it, maybe eventually. Well,

Steve Ross (01:15:21):
I

Harley Finkelstein (01:15:22):
Hope not.

Steve Ross (01:15:23):
There's one asset that keeps rising.

Harley Finkelstein (01:15:25):
Yeah. I mean, although I heard a story that you were offered a year ago, less than a year ago, over 10 billion for the Dolphins, the stadium, the Hard Rock Stadium and Miami F1, and you said no.

Steve Ross (01:15:37):
Right?

Harley Finkelstein (01:15:38):
I mean, 10 billion pretty good. It's a lot of equating a lot of money.

Steve Ross (01:15:43):
It's a lot of money. A lot of tax.

Harley Finkelstein (01:15:45):
Did you consider that when someone offered 10 billion? You didn't consider it?

Steve Ross (01:15:48):
No, that

Harley Finkelstein (01:15:48):
Was it. No way.

David Segal (01:15:49):
No. So why no to that, but yes, to selling part of related in

Steve Ross (01:15:55):
2000. Well, then I look at it now

(01:15:57):
Where the world is and interest rates rising and not knowing, I mean, the franchise is making money, and with higher interest rates, why would I want to borrow money be on the hook for it from that standpoint, when I could sell an interest in the team, when keep a hundred percent control in the way when bringing in the private equity and the rights that the league gave them to having the ability to invest was giving away very little. So I mean, it was almost like free money. I control a hundred percent. And I felt this is a good time, especially my life. And seeing the opportunity in Florida here, I thought I could do better with that money investing in what we're doing here. I gave up nothing. So I still own 85% of thet.

Harley Finkelstein (01:16:57):
And you were able to do some really cool

Steve Ross (01:16:58):
Things with it. Yeah. Really be able to do some cool things. Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (01:17:00):
I mean, F one's also interesting. I mean, F1 obviously has had global notoriety for a long time, but this is the first year that F1 came to Miami,

Steve Ross (01:17:09):
Right? Yeah. This will be our third

Harley Finkelstein (01:17:10):
Year. Your third year. Now, fourth year. When you first brought it here, was it, if you are going to be the supporter, the promoter of South Florida, we need to have F1. Why did that even

Steve Ross (01:17:22):
I felt, first of all, owning a football team, it's not just owning the football team. It's owning a utility in that city. You have a responsibility and bringing the city together, it's great for the city. It's economic development opportunities and everything else. It was great for my business owning a football team. It's a perception of being an owner of an NFL as you mentioned. So it was very positive from a business standpoint, but also having the ability to have the impact on the city in doing things, both in times of crisis. When we had the pandemic, we sponsored food programs for the surrounding neighborhoods. We gave out a thousand meals a day for a year in doing that. We've been there for every time there's been a crisis in Miami, we're there for that. And then building, we kept the Miami Open Tennis tournament there when it was going to leave for South America or Orlando when they couldn't really grow and had to leave Kiva gain. So I went to them and said, Hey, we can do it here. And I had to prove to them I could do it there, which led to the Formula one at our track.

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:42):
Did you think it'd be that big? I mean, I've heard estimates that the formula on race effectively brings in as much money as an entire season of professional sports.

Steve Ross (01:18:50):
Yes, that's true.

Harley Finkelstein (01:18:50):
Yeah,

Steve Ross (01:18:51):
It is true. Yeah. We get more money from those three days of selling tickets than we get for the whole Miami Dolphins season.

Harley Finkelstein (01:19:00):
What is it about F1

Steve Ross (01:19:03):
New exciting? Don't ask me.

Harley Finkelstein (01:19:04):
Yeah, I mean, you own it.

Steve Ross (01:19:06):
I own it. I mean, people love it. It's a great party. It's a great party. It's a great party. And it brings out everybody.

Harley Finkelstein (01:19:11):
Yeah,

Steve Ross (01:19:11):
Everybody wants to be at that party. That's true in Miami, especially Miami. Yeah. It's a great,

David Segal (01:19:16):
Steve, we'd be remiss if we didn't talk about your incredible philanthropy. I mean, you've given to the arts, education, hospitals, racial equality. Talk to us about some of your passion for

Harley Finkelstein (01:19:28):
The Giving Pledge as well. Yeah, the Giving Pledge Buffet, it's one thing to make it, it's another thing to say, I'm going to give the majority of it away.

Steve Ross (01:19:35):
I guess that goes back to my family, my upbringing, my grandfather, my uncle. Listening to that. And I guess when you grow up in something like that, it becomes a part of you at the same time.

David Segal (01:19:50):
What was the messaging around that early on?

Steve Ross (01:19:52):
Pardon?

David Segal (01:19:53):
What was the messaging around giving back? Early on,

Steve Ross (01:19:57):
I grew up with that. Always heard that from my grandfather, my uncle. And I thought it was admirable and said, gee, I'd love to be in that position. So if I'm ever in that position, it was something that was just probably expected of me, or I didn't really do it because it was expected of me. I felt it was very natural. It was something ingrained.

David Segal (01:20:23):
I mean, you've given almost a half a billion dollars to your alma mater, university of Michigan. It's unbelievable.

Steve Ross (01:20:29):
Hey, it's a good thing. I am in a position to be able to do it.

David Segal (01:20:33):
It

Steve Ross (01:20:33):
Certainly hasn't affected my lifestyle and what I'm doing and everything. So I think,

Harley Finkelstein (01:20:38):
But there is this beautiful thing about, I mentioned KU alum, which when we spoke to some of your friends, they mentioned that you really subscribed to this thing of you leave the world better than you found it. There is one thing to make it, it's another category to give it away. And especially because in some ways, Steve, you sort of combine both philanthropy and business together. I mean, I'm not really sure whether or not related Ross is actually, I mean, obviously you make money here, but it also feels like this is also for the community.

Steve Ross (01:21:06):
It's a big deal. Like I said, you want to do impactful things in life. Hey, we go through life once. You want to leave your mark. So doing something impactful and that's good. Makes you feel good. Sure. Steve, why do you think you're so successful? Why?

David Segal (01:21:22):
Yeah.

Steve Ross (01:21:25):
I work hard. I don't think you got to start there. It doesn't happen. And you got to live it and you got to want it.

Harley Finkelstein (01:21:34):
You still want it now as much as you did. I think you were,

Steve Ross (01:21:35):
Yeah. But the answer is yes. I mean, right now I'm probably more possessed in wanting to succeed doing something so unique. And if I do something, I want it to be the best in class, the best in the world. And I mean, I think one of the reasons I'm in the position here, I don't need the money. My kids don't need the money.

Harley Finkelstein (01:21:57):
Your grandkids don't need the money. This is multi-generational wealth.

Steve Ross (01:22:03):
But doing something here and why it's exciting because I'm going to do it in a manner, in a style that's not been done. The city. I have such a large impact in the city and own so much or doing that, I can decide to do it in either the right way or the wrong way. And I want this to be the best in class. And that's a great feeling.

Harley Finkelstein (01:22:31):
It's a great feeling. To want to do something that is so best in class and be so proud of it, I think is mean. The best entrepreneurs I know all do it because they really love it. There's something that they believe in so deeply in their heart that they're willing to run through walls for it. I do want to ask you a question about, I think about Uncle Max, your Uncle Max. Uncle Max. And I think about his story and then sort of how a trends, how it translated to your own ambition. One of the things that David and I explore with Bigshot is this fascinating connection between Jews and entrepreneurship and Jews and success. We are 15 million people on the planet, yet we are disproportionately successful. Dave and I always say that we sat on the shoulders of those that came before us, but those are Jewish entrepreneurs. That's who inspired us to build our own companies. Why do you think Jews have been so successful despite effectively at every turn, something really bad happens to us. People don't like us, people don't want us to succeed. What's the story here?

Steve Ross (01:23:37):
I mean, it probably goes back. If you look back to the discrimination against Jews for almost forever. Forever and wherever they were.

Harley Finkelstein (01:23:46):
That's right. And it follows them.

Steve Ross (01:23:48):
I mean, in the old days, they'd stay together and helped each other. I mean, when you look back now, that's certainly changed now as it world's kind of homogenized itself. But I think that still lies within it's part of our roots and how you want to take care of others and your community. It's more than just about you.

Harley Finkelstein (01:24:15):
Yeah, yeah. It is remarkable. And especially because you see these people, I mean, most of us, even David and I who are a little bit younger than you, we're only a couple generations a away from being

Steve Ross (01:24:26):
Worked. Maybe I'll buy as many years off as I can,

Harley Finkelstein (01:24:31):
But it's true. Even for us, we're all just a few generations away from being poor immigrants here. And yet look at the lives, the success of the industry as the business we've built. And I think part of it, you're right, is because of the antisemitism. Part of it's also is because we all had our own version of Uncle Max who we saw where it makes it possible.

David Segal (01:24:51):
Well, and looking forward too, I mean, one of the things that I find so remarkable about you, Steve, is here. You've accomplished all of these things. Time Warner, Hudson Yards. We didn't talk that much about those projects. You're looking forward.

Harley Finkelstein (01:25:03):
We talked about, we're talking about the new stuff. We're talking about the new stuff. You're 85. We started yada y over the time. Warner Center

Steve Ross (01:25:08):
Weed over the time Warn. Yeah. I'm always looking forward.

Harley Finkelstein (01:25:11):
Yeah.

Steve Ross (01:25:12):
I mean, it's not like going to a closing. I'm onto the next chat. You probably even go to closing dinners. We can

David Segal (01:25:20):
Try to take it back to 2008, the Pandemic and Hudson Yards, and it shifted from retail into office and all these difficult things, challenges you had along the way, but your mind is on building West Pump.

Steve Ross (01:25:33):
Yeah. Well, that's what you got to focus on, what's present. You don't live in the past. It's always what's forward.

Harley Finkelstein (01:25:42):
How do you think about, Dave and I are parents. We both have kids that we're raising younger kids now. How do you think about raising kids? How do you think about instilling them? The value is that your father, your mother, your grandfather, your uncle instilled you. How do you teach your kids about,

Steve Ross (01:25:58):
I mean, I have two daughters that are,

Harley Finkelstein (01:26:01):
I do too. I have two daughters

Steve Ross (01:26:02):
And they're great kids. I mean, they're totally untitled. They both started their own businesses. They didn't want to come in my business. And they're both doing well. And people say, how are your kids so down to earth and Unentitled, and I'm proud of them, but I think it's the time you spend with them, just like you don't even know how you are impacting kids. I mean, that's parents I don't think really realize how you treat your kids, how it impacts them. I've never studied that. But as you mentioned that you got to think about that. And so it's not like all of a sudden you start paying attention at a certain age or you do celebrate certain things. It's a constant relationship you have and how they look at you.

Harley Finkelstein (01:27:03):
How did you balance that when they were growing up in terms of, because I mean, you still work a lot. I

Steve Ross (01:27:11):
Looked at this, so I lived in New York.

(01:27:14):
I don't think, I can't count the amount of times during the weekdays that I had dinner with them for everybody in New York. I rationalized it. Everybody in New York was going home, getting on their trains, and they never were home in time for dinners to have dinner with their kids. So what I did, I took my kids to school every day when they were young. And then just the idea of you can create relationships even though you're working your asshole. Wow. You can create relationships and they'll respect you and they see what you're doing. Kids really, yeah, they're very aware.

Harley Finkelstein (01:27:55):
Very, you probably got great quality time every morning on the way to school with your daughters,

Steve Ross (01:28:02):
And then to this day, we spend a lot of time together. Amazing. It's funny, it's like we grew up with my aunt and uncle living

Harley Finkelstein (01:28:13):
Right above. Yeah, yeah, that's right.

Steve Ross (01:28:15):
So my daughters without me saying anything to them, we all have apartments in the same building in New York. You do. Really? Yeah.

Harley Finkelstein (01:28:25):
Just like you had growing up. I never told them to

Steve Ross (01:28:28):
Right

Harley Finkelstein (01:28:28):
At all. Never. But just like when you were growing up, the furniture furniture's nicer. The building's nicer, but the setup's the same. I

Steve Ross (01:28:35):
Mean, it's Mishka, it's family,

Harley Finkelstein (01:28:38):
And they want it to

Steve Ross (01:28:39):
Be there. That's the best parts. So without even ever telling them this or even asking them this is what they wanted, think about that. I mean, it's like, it's remarkable. So you ask Jews, how do things pass down and how is it, why are we that way? I don't know. Because there's so many things that people pick up along the way that you're not even aware of. That's the only reason you could say that. Well, I mean, look, without talking about it, right? We're much more aware than we think we are.

David Segal (01:29:10):
Yeah. Well, it's remarkable. I mean, your grandfather basically slept on a park bench in New York when he came to the country, and then you end up building a big SWAT in New York and yet, and yet not

Harley Finkelstein (01:29:23):
Much changes about Shabbat dinner.

Steve Ross (01:29:25):
Right.

Harley Finkelstein (01:29:26):
Or even the fact that your daughters, without even asking them, I have two daughters also. Mine are six and eight. I assume yours are much older than six years old, eight years old. That's right. I do have grandchildren, but I can tell you what an incredible feeling would be if one day my daughters want to be closer to my wife and I, they want to move into the same building by choice. I mean, that to me is real success. You've had from the Miami Dolphins to related to related Ross to all the incredible things you've done. I mean, the entire city skyline of New York City, whether it's Time Warner or it's Hudson Yards, has been changed by Steve Ross. And yet, at the end of the day, the most important impactful demonstration of your success is your kids want to spend more time with you, which is earned and not given.

Steve Ross (01:30:11):
Right? I mean, yeah, and that's meaningful. That's right. Really, those are the more meaningful things, right?

David Segal (01:30:19):
Yeah. Do you think about that more now at your age than you did when you were in your forties, let's say?

Steve Ross (01:30:25):
No, I didn't have kids till I was 46 and 49 because I got married later. I've made up for it with the number of wives. But anyway, it's okay. I didn't know what I was missing. I got married first time 40 and I'm about to get married again now, which is amazing. But the kids still were important. That's incredible.

David Segal (01:30:56):
Steve, just to go back for business for one sec, I got to ask, of all these projects, I mean, you mentioned that the great thing about real estate development is there, you get to see it after, as you go back and you reflect on all these incredible things that you've done, do you have a favorite of your projects that you look at and you're like, I did that.

Steve Ross (01:31:12):
The next one?

David Segal (01:31:13):
The next one.

Harley Finkelstein (01:31:14):
It's always the next one. It's always, I mean, that actually should be the title of this episode, which the next one? It's the next one. Never. I mean, I thought we'd have so many notes about Hudson Yards and all these, but you just want to talk about the next thing, which I, God, I'm like a tax accent. I live in Montreal. I said to you, and there's this amazing French expression that I heard with Jo Div, joy of Life. I love Diviv, and what I find so fascinating about incredible entrepreneurs is that we have it more than most people do, that everything feels like a canvas for creativity and for building and for learning. The fact that you're doing it, you did it when you were in your twenties, you're doing it in your eighties now. I don't think you're going to stop doing it.

David Segal (01:31:56):
Amazing. But most people are to not look well. The good ones are able to not look back on their failures and keep going. The great ones, it seems don't even look back on their successes.

Steve Ross (01:32:09):
I mean, I've never looked at it that way, but I would say that's probably true. I don't look back at it. I mean, that was done. That's the past. You got to worry about the future and what you're doing and concentrating on that and not, and I think you also, you can't consciously always worry about preserving what you have. You got to be taking chances and looking forward because that's what life's about. That's how we grew up. And when you lose, you lose you move on. That's right.

Harley Finkelstein (01:32:43):
What would Uncle Max say if he was sitting in the room now with you at this stage, 84 years old, about to get married? Young man like you?

Steve Ross (01:32:52):
Well, I always respected him and he's probably had as much influence as

Harley Finkelstein (01:32:56):
Anybody. What would he say about

Steve Ross (01:32:58):
Your success? Success? The nicest thing he ever said to me. He said, I should have picked you as a partner and brought you in the business. I mean, this is when he was older and away from it, because he didn't really do that and there wasn't any kind of relationship with that.

Harley Finkelstein (01:33:21):
But it wasn't we're cut from the same cloth because it wasn't I love you or I'm so proud. You

Harley Finkelstein (01:33:26):
Should have made you a partner. I should have made you a partner to us. I totally get it. Yeah. It's the highest level of brave, and we get it. We get it.

Steve Ross (01:33:34):
He said, with your creativity and

Harley Finkelstein (01:33:36):
Myness, imagine even we could have done.

Steve Ross (01:33:39):
Imagine so. I mean, that's good. That was probably the nicest thing you ever, that's amazing. That's

Harley Finkelstein (01:33:46):
Amazing. Did your parents get a chance to see your success?

Steve Ross (01:33:52):
Yes. Yes. Where I am today and where I was then, it's different, but I was success. I mean, once I started business and all that, I mean, I've had my downs. I remember when I went in the early nineties with the real estate depression, the worst probably of all time, and I owed the banks. God knows how much money and I paid 'em back everything. But I think the way I treated them allowed me to survive, and they made sure I survived.

David Segal (01:34:29):
What was that? You gloss over it, but it was like a 3, 4, 5 year period,

Steve Ross (01:34:35):
Right? Yeah. I mean, that was true. That was the worst depression for real estate in the country ever. The savings and loan crisis and all that. The banks had no liquidity, and they were calling all their loans and everything. But I think, I mean, I look back at it and I'm proud to say is I did things for the banks that I learned from my grandfather, and I think they were there for me to making sure that I survived.

Harley Finkelstein (01:35:05):
Wow. Is that a policy or a practice that you think continues over time? Because that sort of insinuate a little bit of a personal relationship, and it does seem to me that especially with things like AI coming into banking, it's going to

Steve Ross (01:35:20):
Have a real impact because

Harley Finkelstein (01:35:21):
Less relationships.

Steve Ross (01:35:22):
Yeah, less relationships. The world. It's pretty frightening when you start looking about this and where the jobs are going to come from, what are we going to be doing? Everything we're doing now is to de-emphasize the individual, and sure, we're talking about doing things that have never been done before, but everything is, don't worry about it. There'll be something else. But I don't know where all these jobs are going to come from, how people are going to really find things to really keep themselves have meaning. Meaning, I mean, what's that going to be like?

Harley Finkelstein (01:36:00):
Right. Well, it's like go back to the bank. Your conversation with the bank in around 1970 where they said, look, we don't really know you, but we have something. And or even your uncle, actually, when he went to the bank and got money, he said, look, ask around. Ask her about my reputation. That becomes more objective, more transactional now, less about the people, more about, okay, here's your score. It's binary.

David Segal (01:36:23):
That happened a while. That's a common big shot story we saw with Larry Silverstein where the banks did business on a handshake where that went away a long time ago. Right. Could your uncle have done what he did nowadays in the same way?

Steve Ross (01:36:39):
No. I mean, we're so sophisticated today and people are looking with their computers. They look at the files, they look at, they don't want to know the

Speaker 5 (01:36:49):
Individual.

Steve Ross (01:36:53):
We're a bigger world. There's more people today, so it's harder to really understand people.

David Segal (01:36:58):
What would you do today as a young Steve Ross, to somebody who's listening, who looks up to you and is thinking of follow in your footsteps? How would you approach it

Steve Ross (01:37:06):
Today? How would I,

David Segal (01:37:08):
Yeah,

Steve Ross (01:37:08):
The same.

David Segal (01:37:09):
Same.

Steve Ross (01:37:11):
I mean, the fact is I learned a certain way, and I mean there's certain basics that how you treat people to start with. You just hope people are the same. I mean, you're disappointed when you've done something for somebody and then when they turn on you or something like that. I don't think your values should change no matter how successful you are and how you look and treat people.

Harley Finkelstein (01:37:40):
I mean, the way you treat people, and maybe we'll sort of end on this because we want to be respectful of your time. We heard a story that when you were building Time Warner Center in New York City, at the end of it, when you were fully leased, you went and bought a Porsche for the designer

Steve Ross (01:37:57):
For the architect.

Harley Finkelstein (01:37:57):
For the architect

Steve Ross (01:38:00):
David David Child.

Harley Finkelstein (01:38:01):
Yes. Who was it?

Steve Ross (01:38:02):
David Child. David Child,

Harley Finkelstein (01:38:04):
Okay. Famous architect.

Steve Ross (01:38:05):
Famous, yeah. He was a great architect.

Harley Finkelstein (01:38:07):
So you went out and bought him a Porsche because you were so happy with the results. You also talk about when we were sitting down here, all the people that work at your companies, both here at Related Ross, but also just related companies, the people that have done really well, millionaires, a couple billionaires were created because of these companies. There is a real sense that ultimately you do value people in a way that is remarkable, that the people that do well by you, you do well by them. And I think that's the reason why so many amazing people want to be around you and want to work for you. And I don't think that's so common.

Steve Ross (01:38:43):
Well, that's what you got to do. What you think works best for you, you can't judge by way other people treat people or what they do or what their values are shouldn't change your values, and I think you are what you are and you should stay true to the core.

Harley Finkelstein (01:39:01):
Yeah, I mean, we've interviewed all these amazing people for Big Shot. Big Shot is a celebration of the greatest Jewish entrepreneurs, and Steve, you're at the top of our list. It's true, but the way that you do it, it's not just what you've done, which is remarkable, the how that you've done it, the through line about character, about community, about the people, always looking forward, always looking forward, always optimistic. I mean, even now I feel like we can talk for hours with you, but all things you're excited by to have that div, to have that sense of giving back. I mean, you referred to a couple of these projects, almost like utility projects. Now I think what you mean by that, I mean the way I take it is utilities are there to support the people that live there.

Steve Ross (01:39:44):
I said what it was utility was like owning a Miami Don.

Harley Finkelstein (01:39:46):
That's right. But most people don't look it that way

Steve Ross (01:39:48):
Because the community is dependent upon,

Harley Finkelstein (01:39:50):
But most people don't look at it that way. Bigger. It's so much bigger than you. To believe that you spent all that money to create a utility for other people is a very uncommon way to,

Steve Ross (01:40:00):
But it also has been a great benefit to me. At the same time, recognizing the fact that you own a team and the doors that opens at the same time allows me to do things that I couldn't otherwise

Speaker 5 (01:40:12):
Do.

Steve Ross (01:40:13):
I think owning the team, and I don't think most people in sports recognize the fact of what it is. I mean, people look at things very narrowly and you got to look at things much broader and how other people see it and not just the way you might see it, but you got to,

David Segal (01:40:35):
Yeah. One of the things that I said to you on the way in that really struck me, I mean you're talking now about being able to see things broadly in the entire ecosystem. For most guests, we get about three to four pages of notes for Steve Ross. We got nine to 10

Steve Ross (01:40:48):
What,

David Segal (01:40:49):
Nine to 10 pages of notes, and I think it speaks to this incredible, I mean, you've done so much. You've had such a big impact on the world. You've had such broad sense of experiences. I mean, it's just remarkable. And I don't think maybe you realize, or maybe you do, how do you draw on all of these different experiences to be able to create a sense of the whole and the broadness and the ecosystem

Steve Ross (01:41:17):
Life's that way. You go from box to box, you put 'em together. Either it's your core, what you are and how you act. If you're true and people see you as you want to be looked at as a real person, I mean no different than it else. It's just the way I'm fortunate enough, I've been very fortunate. I've worked hard and I guess whatever the makeup is of how I am it, it's how I got there. So you want to maximize what you got.

Harley Finkelstein (01:41:50):
We will let you go because this has been an amazing couple of hours together. Thank you for being on this little approach of our you. You've been so fun for us. Thank you. You are an incredibly inspiring entrepreneur and we mean that. And thank you for being on big show. Thank

Steve Ross (01:42:03):
You. Appreciate your tax. Interesting. Thank you. Thanks so

Harley Finkelstein (01:42:06):
Much, Steve.

Steve Ross (01:42:07):
Thank you.